Masks

Do you have any explanation for this huge difference in new infections in just ONE DAY ?
Germany: 378 (by RKI)
USA: 63.643 (by JHU)

Hi Ignatz, no, I do not have explanation why those numbers are so different. That is I know probable reason but to be sure I have to look into a lot of material. I'm not willing because I see no reason for it. This change nothing beside generating more posts.

I know one for sure. What you are doing by comparing raw number is not science at all. Most probable reason for this big US number is that US test like crazy this days. Let's put aside reason why it that. I read that over 600K tests are done daily. How many tests are done in Germany? How tests are done? Are US tests have same accuracy as German's? Are tests done mainly on hospitalized patients? in cities? mega companies? When tests are not being applied? What is the reporting cycle... etc., etc..
Then number of positive cases itself does not mean that all cases are new. I can be that virus spread was very high in early stages and now is slowing, or can be opposite. Maybe Germans were exposed to other pathogen in the past that gave them great resistance to COVID-19.

What I want to show you is that we don't know, I don't know, the answers, but I know for sure that there are many possible ways to explain discrepancy you pointed, and that putting single interpretation on them that fits your narrative is not a science but propaganda. You may be right after all, but it is quite unlikely - that is that masks are reason for the difference.

And this is what I wanted to focus on - masks. My goal is not to review every argument about 'pandemic', but to make you realize that it is not necessary true what you are hearing from tv screen or officials about masks.

Pores in any face mask are much bigger than virus size, are much bigger than micro droplets. Viruses going through mask in and out without much restriction. Mask are bad for your health. Mask are unlikely reason to explain difference in case numbers before US and Germany but if you want to use case numbers to prove that masks do work, please, do so, but do it right way.
I fill I have to repeat that I do not advocate for recklessness especially for those over 70 with underlying conditions.

Also, don't trust experts blindly. You mentioned Lancet. Recently there was a bigger news about Lancet revealing how big pharma can produce any outcome they want, using 'rigorous scientific methodology'. This is of course no news to people in research circles but was never, discussed publicly on this level. That doesn't mean that every study is false, but shows that it is doable. Actually one of propaganda methods is to use 'right' kind of experts and block out others.

Numbers don't lie, true, but people give interpretation to numbers and people not always tell the truth, intentionally or not. If you are interested, find some simple Youtube videos or articles, whatever you prefer, about errors in statistics and how blind trust in them lead to tragedies. There are some really good info out there, that show you how easily you can be mislead by your (not you particular but you as a human) thinking if you don't pay attention. Good and very educational stuff.

I stopped to read an article that showed up on ZH ( www.zerohedge.com/political/whitney-looks-sweden-was-right-after-all ). I hesitated about p linking it because of language author use. He also makes few emotional statements that may not be understandable to 'average person' (but he is right anyway). Eventually I decided to throw it in, not much for discussion but to give you example that there are experts out there who have different opinion and their voices are not heard by public.
 
Most probable reason for this big US number is that US test like crazy this days.
sorry, that´s NOT the reason. germany also does a lot of testing especially in Hotspots like Osnabrück nearly the whole population there ! but the relevant number is: positive rate. more tests but relativ more infections, so it is NOT a matter of more testing. It´s a matter of relatively more infections. Still not stopped, still going up and also deaths will go up.
Positivrate.PNG
tests.PNG
bestätigte Fälle: confirmed infections.
But i am sure you find a reason /person/article who doubt that

Viruses going through mask in and out without much restriction.
sorry, complete wrong. Virus needs a droplet to go out, cant go out by itself. And droplets are stopped, not by 100 % but EVERY percentage helps.

And if sweden was on the right way, why does it have 5 times more deaths than compared to germany ? Is that the right way ?
And why do they close now Restaurants etc. if they don´t follow the rules beside some more restrictions (they changed their mind and nearly the same restrictions as in germany now !) ?

it´s the same game you play all the time: It might be all not believable, could be wrong numbers, could be other reason, find some "internet specialist", ignore studies peer-reviewed, doubting Lancet etc. etc. etc. a lot of subjunctive
Numbers dont lie.
you can go on in doubting all.
We act here and stop infection as much as possible, including masks. We trust our specialists and numbers NOW are low, DEFINITELY. (By the way: at the beginning you didn´t have to wear a mask here but numbers were high but also not many masks available, what could be the reason for not wearing a mask, then we changed and numbers went down dramatically after masks were available)
You don´t trust, doubt a lot, numbers go up.
You don´t have any explanation, you even don´t learn from experience of your own country like New York.
Good luck.
 

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number of Covid-19 in-patients in hospitals in Texas. Like in Arizona. Like in Florida. Like in California.
And don´t tell me : a matter of more testing
Wanna see results of more testing and more infections in Florida ?
Here it is:
Florida.PNG
 
Great example.
Do you find any name of an author of "facts about Covid-19" ????
Any Impressum ?
is that serious journalism ?
provided by experts in the field ? Names ? references ?
i think i am also an expert now. Do you agree :) ? (That´s a joke !)
or just another anonymous (!) article, some nice numbers, all sounds nice, sounds well informed, telling half-truth by NOT showing (What about Italy, Spain) ?

If that would be serious, you could see a name. And could do a research.
you only see this: Our articles have been published or shared by numerous independent media outlets and journalists, among them Julian Assange, and have been translated into more than two dozen languages.
oh, wow, must be a really very important and absolutely serious research group.

and ? Who wrote this ... ?
Any responsible editor for the content ?
Any Adress ?
Any telephone number ?
you got it ?

Just another garbage ?
It´s not worth sharing this nonsense because everybody can write articles as an "expert in the field" without telling your name, or adress or being responsible for the content.
 
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this is what it should look like for example:
Names, Adress, copyright, etc.
 
"Most probable reason for this big US number is that US test like crazy this days."

sorry, that´s NOT the reason. germany also does a lot of testing especially in Hotspots like Osnabrück nearly the whole population there ! but the relevant number is: positive rate. more tests but relativ more infections, so it is NOT a matter of more testing. It´s a matter of relatively more infections. Still not stopped, still going up and also deaths will go up.

Ignatz, I cant argue with capital-letter 'NOT'. Thank you and good luck.
 
some facts about sweden ?
highest mortality rate since 1993
Worldometer Corona-deaths per one Million
  • Schweden: 399
  • Dänemark: 97
  • Finnland: 56
  • Norwegen: 43
22 swedish Virologists, doctors for infections, pulmonologists on May 15th:
instead of let people die you should care for people get or stay healthy until we have a vaccine or method of treatment.
 
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Do you find any name of an author of "facts about Covid-19" ????

You have to look a little deeper if you want the names that is just a collection of facts as it is explained at the top
"Fully referenced facts about Covid-19, provided by experts in the field"
There is your favorite word "expert"

If you click on the first link it will take you to "Studies on Covid-19 lethality"
From there you can read the different reports and studies from different countries and they all have names and addresses if that is what you are looking for so it's not anonymous but I am sure you are not going to be impressed by that
It's just another garbage to you
I guess it depends on what "expert" you believe
 
@Curtis, I realized that my words can be interpreted in a manner I didn't intent.

By using' tinfoil hat' example I didn't want to say that you are nuts. Not at all. My intention was to tell that I can follow your wishes in your house even if they seem to me irrational. I accept irrational fears in other people as I have some of those as well.

Just wanted this clarification out.
 
70.000 infections per day, no medicine, no vaccine.
big disaster, for society, for economics, for overcrowded hospitals
but still discussing about masks... unbelievable
daily infections.PNG
 
Realx. Take a deep breath, don't panic
The vacine it's on it's way Just a couple of days ago there was an anouncement with positive results with a recent trial and I heard another company is going to anounce their results on Monday
700000 infections does not equal 700000 dead
Not every one of those 700000 are in the hospital
The cheap masks is not going to save anyone from getting infected
Forcing people to wear a mask when it's possible to keep your distance is pointless and makes no common sense and yet we are still forced to do so
On the contrary forcing people to wear the mask everywhere makes them feel that they are safer and can get closer
More people coming out from the lockdown = more people mingling and getting close to eachother with the cheap mask = more infections and that is to be expected
No one said that after the lockdown the virus is gone and no more infections
This was done to flatten the curve not to eliminate the virus
Forcing people to wear a cheap mask and let them do whatever they want is not going to stop the virus
 
ok you are completely right.
but might it be that there is a slightly difference here if you look at countries, where most of them (not all !) wear mostly cheap masks and some of them without covering the nose, which is the predominant entrance for the virus ?
Where is the problem when using a mask only when going shopping or in a bus, train etc ?
No one speaks about wearing it all the time.

daily infections ger.PNG
But i think you are sure to be on the right way. On the way to ..... ?
I don´t panic. But should you ?
by the way: vaccine will be available in 3-6 months. or in 9 months? one year ?
Let´s do maths:
60,000 per day, 6 months (180 days)=> 10 million more infections.
3 months: 5 million more infections.
Any damage of society, economics, overcrowded hospitals etc. ?
But it´s nice to feel "free" !?!
still can´t believe this sort of discussion. Against all warnings, possible alternatives, expert advices, examples in other countries with exactly the same problems.
 
Just think about this as a trader.
Your account is going down and down and down....
Do you wait for the turnaraound, which will happen some day, but then account is down 30, 50, 70 %
or is it a good idea to reduce investment or even use a stop loss ?
 
f you look at countries, where most of them (not all !) wear mostly cheap masks and some of them without covering the nose, which is the predominant entrance for the virus
So what does that tell you ?
If they are wearing the mask over the mouth and breathe through the nose how effective is the mask ?
What is the purpose of the mask then ? Just in case of coughing ? or talking , shouting ? for fashion ? just to blend in or comply to go along with the orders regardless if it makes any sense?
If the nose is the predominant entrance for the virus why not cover the nose ?
Might it be that there is less people in those countries and therefore the virus spread takes longer ?
No one speaks about wearing it all the time.
A lot of states are trying to do just that so a lot of businesses are affraid to speak up or face a fine so they enforce it even more to the point that you can't even step into an empty store without wearing a mask The social distancing is completely dropped off so you have to wear the mask all the time even if social distancing is possible because the fear and panic that is spread around that if you get less than 6 feet for a milisecond you imediately get the virus and of course there is no vaccine so you are automaticaly presumend that you are going to die
But should you ?
I don't panic but the media is trying to do that by constatly reporting number of infections
There was no such reporting in any other infections previously
Why is that ? Why start now ? Could it be for political reasons ?
Why is there no such panic when reporting the normal seasonal flu cases ? There are people dying from the flu are they not ?
Why are there no orders to wear the mask for the seasonal flu ? Is it just because we have a vaccine that works maybe 50% of the time or maybe because there is no panic and no one pays any attention to it ?

There has to be point where the government should get out of the way and let people decide what is safe and what is not
Put out some guidelines and leave it at that If people don't follow the guideline and get infected that is their problem not mine
If people follow the guideline and still get infected than obviously the guidelines are useless
Forcing healthy people to wear a cheap mask all the time even when social distancing is possible is not only useless it makes people
feel that they can get closer with the mask which is worse than not wearing a mask

If you don't wear the mask you are more aware of your surounding and stay away from people and also because other people see that you are not wearing the mask they tend to stay away from you both of which follow the social distancing guideline
 
Just think about this as a trader.

Not sure how you can make an analogy between the virus and trading and where the mask comes in
Obviously you don't want to loose any money so that depends on your trading style and your risk tolerance
Since the cheap mask is not protecting you from the virus I think an analogy might be to buy one cheap OTM put thinking that it will protect your account sure it may give you a little protection for part of the account for a short period of time but in the long run you will still loose money
 
Since the cheap mask is not protecting you from the virus
completely wrong. Can you read numbers ?
Just look at the numbers. they are low even when there are some idiots not wearing it or wearing it without covering the nose. You are able to control the virus like quarantine for hotspots etc., strictly limited to hotspots.
With nearly half a million new infections PER WEEK can you control that huge number ? You believe in miracles ?
And by the way: the virus started one month earlier in europe so the virus had more time to spread. But we took action. May be too much.
But numbers are low now, restricitions are still there but acceptable and getting less as knowledge about the virus increases and how to protect.
We protect our population as good as possible, especially the older one.
You can also get to this level but many prefer to ignore, discuss or talk about fake news, "freedom".
If you give idiots the chance to be an idiot they will take the chance.

other people see that you are not wearing the mask they tend to stay away from you
really ? in the bus during rush hour ? in the train ? in the supermarket ? in a stadium or bowl? how far from reality is that ?

a little bit more pragmatism and less hardcore darwinism may help ?
i always thought US are known for their pragmatism.
 
they are low even when there are some idiots not wearing it or wearing it without covering the nose. You are able to control the virus like quarantine for hotspots etc., strictly limited to hotspots.

That sounds contradictory
If the numbers are low regardless of how or if they are wearing the mask than why force people to wear the mask ?
Sure you are able to control the virus with quarantine for hotspots but that is a lot different than trying to control it by forcing people to wear a cheap mask

If you give idiots the chance to be an idiot they will take the chance.

No argument there
There are a lot of idiots here "You can't fix stupid" as the saying goes
in the bus during rush hour ? in the train ? in the supermarket ? in a stadium or bowl?

Each situation is different so they should not be lumped all together as a one size fits all
Speaking only for myself I have my own transportation so the bus or train is not a factor
The supermarket is not crowded and it has wide isles so it's not the same as a bus or a train and also you are not seating next to another person for a long time you can easily pass another person so I see no reason whatsoever to wear a mask in a supermarket at the checkout they have those circles on the ground so you can easily tell if you are at least 6ft from someone else So that is one place where social distancing is possible but no, you still need to wear a cheap mask
I am not planing to go to any stadium or bowl so that is also not a factor besides very few if any are open to the public and if they are it's alimited capacity
 
If the numbers are low regardless of how or if they are wearing the mask than why force people to wear the mask ?
Who said that ? i said MOST of the people are wearing a mask correctly and it helps a lot. You never get 100 %. We don´t have zero infections, still have some. But hey, what a difference. You have less masks, we have less infections. Got it ?
You can´t make a rule for every single bus, train, supermarket etc. Because virus ignores all rules and will take any chance to spread.
discuss or protect others because you don´t know if you are infected as long as there is no vaccine.
 
Who said that ?
if you look at countries, where most of them (not all !) wear mostly cheap masks and some of them without covering the nose, which is the predominant entrance for the virus
Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say
i said MOST of the people are wearing a mask correctly and it helps a lot
You say that now but that's not what you said erlier I somehow interpreted you saying that the numbers are low even when some people are not wearing the mask properly

Here is an order from NY from April 15th
"The Governor issued an executive order requiring all people in New York to wear a mask or a face covering when in public and in situations where social distancing cannot be maintained, such as on public transportation. "
This was after over 200000 confirmed cases and 10000 dead
If the mask was such a good idea why not order it when there was only a few cases ?
Keep in mind this was after a lockdown for one month
 
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