Live prices, historical prices and SAME DAY historical prices...ONE

[status1]

My thought is that there is no problem, except for not being able to see the intraday price action of the individual option/underlying as provided by ONE

That would be correct
The main problem I see is that all the intraday times (5min,1Hr are grayed out and also the option prices disappear so the only thing you can do is to go back 1 day so basically you are just looking at Thursday's close on Friday

The only reason I got ONE was I thought it might analyze time spreads better than TOS but since it's getting the data from TOS it's only as good as the data (garbage in garbage out) so you can't analyze anything reliably after the market is closed so I am going to let the subscription expire and stick with TOS until someone comes up with something better

 

[Steve G]

RJM - I think where things might be different than what you are expecting in your notes above is that I believe that after-hours quotes are not based on closing prices, but based on the Bid/Ask at closing which can sometimes be quite different and give some unexpected results from time to time. Bottom line - I would not base any significant decision or adjustments on after-hours information (note that this is true for most any software analysis program, not just ONE).

On a separate but related note - my recent personal experience with ONE has not been good:
I totally agree with you that ONE support is very poor and in fact, they have recently started to attack me personally, claiming that I have misused their software because I have shared images of some of my ONE modeled trades on the internet (mainly in these Aeromir channels) without proper attribution (I have shared images just like most any other trader has - and I have not found a single example of anyone using their "attribution statement", but no one seems to be getting harassed but me, at least at this point). This is after I sent them 20-30 new subscribers over the past 10 months AND I told them back in March via email that I was planning to teach a Butterfly class and start sharing content including some shots of ONE online from time to time and asked if I could get a special price for the people I sent to them (they said "no special price"), but also said nothing about any "fee" for sharing images.

When I recently asked ONE a support question that someone had asked based on one of my posts, the next thing I know - ONE is asking for links and details of my postings so that they can send me an "extra invoice" and are threatening to turn me over to their legal department. Mind you - I have probably posted fewer than 30 - 40 images in these Aeromir channels in the last 10 months (and told them so), but I don't remember where I posted them all. They are saying that since I am not sharing my posts with them, they are presuming I am hiding something and turning me over to their legal department.

Mind you there is no requirement in their "Terms and Conditions" that require me to share everywhere I posted (even if I could remember), so I have simply asked them to show me anywhere they feel I am "non-compliant" and that I would be happy to remove the content or correct it in a manner they feel is appropriate and this is what they sent back to me:




Bottom line - I personally feel like they may be in a "Money Grab" mode for some reason and I would urge people to be very careful in how/where they use their product.

In full disclosure - they do have an "Attribution" requirement on their "Terms and Conditions" page, but back in March when I did start to share a few images of ONE, I asked Tom to put ONE attribution on all Aeromir pages - which he promptly did - so I am not sure what their concern is and they have still not given me any examples of me being non-compliant.

Just let this serve as a warning to anyone using ONE - that the company "May" decide you own them some indeterminate amount of extra money if you share any images that include their product and have not fully attributed them to their satisfaction.

 

[DaveN]

Here's the question: If I'm actively trading on Friday and do not upload my trades from Friday until after the close (importing from TOS or IB, depending), will ONE analyze my position (i.e. the buys and sells) using Friday closing data, or my actual uploaded data? Support has been curt saying "its not possible", but I don't know if they are saying my trade data is not uploadable, or that my P/L will vary bc what ONE will use is the Friday closing data for all trades entered on Friday.

Any experience here?

I believe this limitation is driven by an exchange rule around intraday data-distribution for the previous day. It isn't available until the start of regular trading hours (RTH) the following day. Neither my IBKR or TOS API's can get this, and if you try to run ThinkBack on ToS, you'll see that you cannot go into intraday times on the previous day until the start of Regular Trading Hours. I don't think this is a ONE thing, but rather some arcane exchange distribution limitation. That historical intraday data is not available, unless you've collected it yourself.

On ONE specifically, after the close of RTH, you cannot increment backwards in time into earlier that day. Not until the start of the next session. Any backwards time increment will take you to the close of the previous day.

So, @RJM, if you are entering your trades into ONE, and want to match the trade times, then you'll need to wait until the start of market hours the following day. This is a long time if you are looking at Friday trades, and waiting until Monday to enter them. I understand.

All is not lost. If you aren't too worried about matching the time of entry, you can post your trades at that end of day timestamp, but use the prices that you got for the trade. You can enter the combo price overall in the trade entry (F5), and if you want to fix prices for each leg, you can do so in the Trade Log directly. The only mismatch will be the time of the trade.

That way, you can do your analysis and prepare for the next session with everything (P&L, Greeks, commissions, etc.) but trade execution times matching up. If that's important over time and for your trade history, you can delete that trade in the log, and re-enter it into the software, e.g. a Friday trade at 11:23 am EST anytime after the start of RTH on Monday.

 

[RJM]

RJM - I think where things might be different than what you are expecting in your notes above is that I believe that after-hours quotes are not based on closing prices, but based on the Bid/Ask at closing which can sometimes be quite different and give some unexpected results from time to time. Bottom line - I would not base any significant decision or adjustments on after-hours information (note that this is true for most any software analysis program, not just ONE).

On a separate but related note - my recent personal experience with ONE has not been good:
I totally agree with you that ONE support is very poor and in fact, they have recently started to attack me personally, claiming that I have misused their software because I have shared images of some of my ONE modeled trades on the internet (mainly in these Aeromir channels) without proper attribution (I have shared images just like most any other trader has - and I have not found a single example of anyone using their "attribution statement", but no one seems to be getting harassed but me, at least at this point). This is after I sent them 20-30 new subscribers over the past 10 months AND I told them back in March via email that I was planning to teach a Butterfly class and start sharing content including some shots of ONE online from time to time and asked if I could get a special price for the people I sent to them (they said "no special price"), but also said nothing about any "fee" for sharing images.

When I recently asked ONE a support question that someone had asked based on one of my posts, the next thing I know - ONE is asking for links and details of my postings so that they can send me an "extra invoice" and are threatening to turn me over to their legal department. Mind you - I have probably posted fewer than 30 - 40 images in these Aeromir channels in the last 10 months (and told them so), but I don't remember where I posted them all. They are saying that since I am not sharing my posts with them, they are presuming I am hiding something and turning me over to their legal department.

Mind you there is no requirement in their "Terms and Conditions" that require me to share everywhere I posted (even if I could remember), so I have simply asked them to show me anywhere they feel I am "non-compliant" and that I would be happy to remove the content or correct it in a manner they feel is appropriate and this is what they sent back to me:


View attachment 4420

Bottom line - I personally feel like they may be in a "Money Grab" mode for some reason and I would urge people to be very careful in how/where they use their product.

In full disclosure - they do have an "Attribution" requirement on their "Terms and Conditions" page, but back in March when I did start to share a few images of ONE, I asked Tom to put ONE attribution on all Aeromir pages - which he promptly did - so I am not sure what their concern is and they have still not given me any examples of me being non-compliant.

Just let this serve as a warning to anyone using ONE - that the company "May" decide you own them some indeterminate amount of extra money if you share any images that include their product and have not fully attributed them to their satisfaction.

RJM Here... I can confirm that ONE seems to be in a very aggressive, anti-support mode. Perhaps they are thinking of selling out bc they were quite annoyed by my asking the questions that I asked regarding ability to access trades and prices after the close on Fridays. They apparently didn't appreciate that I asked basically the same questions that I had asked 18 months ago, replying "we have answered all your questions and we note that you previously asked these very questions in the past." (I asked bc I had hoped that in the interim, their long promised improvements may have provided a different answer.) I'm continuing to use OptionVue (in its limited capacity while they work (very slowly) towards a complete rewrite of their code.

 

[RJM]

I believe this limitation is driven by an exchange rule around intraday data-distribution for the previous day. It isn't available until the start of regular trading hours (RTH) the following day. Neither my IBKR or TOS API's can get this, and if you try to run ThinkBack on ToS, you'll see that you cannot go into intraday times on the previous day until the start of Regular Trading Hours. I don't think this is a ONE thing, but rather some arcane exchange distribution limitation. That historical intraday data is not available, unless you've collected it yourself.

On ONE specifically, after the close of RTH, you cannot increment backwards in time into earlier that day. Not until the start of the next session. Any backwards time increment will take you to the close of the previous day.

So, @RJM, if you are entering your trades into ONE, and want to match the trade times, then you'll need to wait until the start of market hours the following day. This is a long time if you are looking at Friday trades, and waiting until Monday to enter them. I understand.

All is not lost. If you aren't too worried about matching the time of entry, you can post your trades at that end of day timestamp, but use the prices that you got for the trade. You can enter the combo price overall in the trade entry (F5), and if you want to fix prices for each leg, you can do so in the Trade Log directly. The only mismatch will be the time of the trade.

That way, you can do your analysis and prepare for the next session with everything (P&L, Greeks, commissions, etc.) but trade execution times matching up. If that's important over time and for your trade history, you can delete that trade in the log, and re-enter it into the software, e.g. a Friday trade at 11:23 am EST anytime after the start of RTH on Monday.

Thanks Dave, but the number one reason I was considering ONE was the advertised ability to import from IB. If I end up having to manually go in and adjust prices on 20 strikes/trades every Friday night (20 trades a day, and more on expiration Fridays), it becomes a less compelling option. (I am posting a new thread seeking help on importing IB trades into OptionVue, even if I have to first export to Excel....)

 

[DaveN]

I understand @RJM, that makes sense. In my day job, I'm a huge proponent of automating everywhere possible to free up people to do the creative thinking and what if's.

For ToS, there's a small utility application called "Create ONE Import" but I cannot find the name of the developer as the links all seem to be out of date. There may be something similar for IBKR trades. I'll follow that thread you've created to see what might be out there, or what others might have done.

If not, something in Python or Excel should be easy to put together. ONE is looking for a standard format for Import, and one of those can rearrange the output into that format. I haven't imported IBKR in a while, but it seems that for IBKR there we only a few edits required to put the Account Statement into the format specified in the ONE Importer. There's also the option to pull it straight out of an API request, if you are running that. Also, someone may have already developed something.

I'm interested to watch your thread. Thanks for the heads up on it!