Masks

M

Marcas

Active member
In today's TG1 meeting I have overheard Tom talking with someone about face masks. I heard only end of conversation when Tom mentioned some young fellow who wears mask only when necessary (when he is forced to). Tom said, if I understand correctly, that such a behavior endangers society somehow.

I want to challenge that statement.
What this young man does is completely rational while Tom's position is not.
As usual I can be wrong although in this case I'm quite positive that this young fellow is in right.

Would you Tom, or anybody else, pick up the challenge? We can talk science, facts and psychology.
 
If the young man is a carrier, it's much easier to spread the disease via oral/nasal droplets without a mask than with one.
 
I have not seen the video yet but I agree with that young fellow and that is exactly what I am doing and I am not even that young
If you don't have the virus you are not endangering anyone It's more likely that you are scaring other people in wearing the mask or at least make them think that you are in a virus filled environment and need to protect yourself

If someone has the virus they should stay at home and not walk around with a mask That is more likely to endanger society than anything else

Personally speaking when I go to Target for example I don't mingle or talk to other people in the store I get my stuff and get out using the self checkout so I keep my distance as I would do normally anyway so I don't see how this behaviour is endangering anyone

If that young fellow goes into a bar or a club and mingles and talks to a lot of people that is a different story but I don't go to bars so I don't have that problem
 
JoeA said:
If the young man is a carrier, it's much easier to spread the disease via oral/nasal droplets without a mask than with one
Click to expand...

True but if that is the case than the young man should not be walking around spreading the disease
 
That is probably what is scaring everybody into wearing them
Which brings up a philosophical question similar to
"If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

If a person is a carrier and is not aware and spreads the virus to another person who is not aware does that spread the virus ? Obviously not to those people since they are not aware or are imune

But what did we do in the past when someone had the seasonal flu ?
No one was scared and no one was wearing the mask

It's only because of the media constatntly reporting on it that we even pay attention to it

As far as I am concerned the only place you should wear a mask is if you work in a nursing home or in the hospital
It should be voluntary not mandatory for enyone else
People should be free to make their own jugement when to wear a mask and not forced into doing something that is not neccesary in most places
 
I agree with sataus1, but I don't ask, if I may, for exchange of opinions. I prefer examining the facts.

For what I read above i think that we agree (so we?) that face masks do not prevent form contracting the virus. If one compare pores in the mask to size of the virus it is like trying to catch mosquito with a chicken wire.

JoeA brought the only point that can make any sense (not much though): if sick person, sneezing and coughing have to go out for some reason he should avoid close contact with others (shaking hands), wearing mask also makes sense to prevent sneezing in anybody's face.
Masks, even fitted N95s, do not prevent virus from getting out though, they only limit the range of spread in steady air environment. If air is moving, or people are moving or both, it makes no practical difference.

Other point that needs to be addressed is what we are trying to prevent. What is the danger here? I didn't follow the numbers lately (numbers I've seen gave clear picture of what is going on) but today I found study of Canadian doctors:

“Four infectious disease doctors in Canada estimate that the individual rate of death from COVID-19 for people under 65 years of age is six per million people, or 0.0006 per cent – 1 in 166,666, which is “roughly equivalent to the risk of dying from a motor vehicle accident during the same time period.”

Same picture you see from other studies (but I recognize that if you watch media you may have different picture - false one).

What's more about masks, they are dangerous to presron wearing them, they increase risk of getting sick. Not only with COVID 19 but many other things. Thus wearing mask everywhere endangers society - opposite to what was said. Werid thought to some, but based on facts, at least facts known to me.

But, rather than talking, I'd like to hear arguments for wearing masks with rationale.
 
Sorry I don't have any facts to wear the mask

I just wanted to clarify something
From what I have read sneezing is not one of the symptoms of this virus so it should be excluded from the reason for wearing the mask although a lot of people including officials throw that in there along with coughing as part of the reason for wearing the mask

Sure you may sneeze occasionally for other reasons (pollen ,allergies) in addition to coughing from the virus but the main objective for the mask is for coughing not sneezing
 
Well, I do see some reasons for wearing masks. I refuse to give up to irrationale of face masks (actually it is more than that) but was considering putting some cloth on when meeting with people I know, really good and deserving respect ( I do know what I'm saying) who are very, very scared. I know I can explain to them why they are wrong and what techniques are used to manipulate them but I know that reason can not pierce through fear. And for respect to them I can put some cloth on or keep distance, especially that there are age and lung conditions involved.

Saying truth I expect people keep quiet or repeat propaganda (or show aggression) but maybe I do miss some important points about masks and COVID amd it is me who have false picture. If you wont ask, you wont get any answer.
 
Yes you are right, there is really NO reason for a mask. Go on.

ArcGIS Dashboards

ArcGIS Dashboards
gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com

Top 5 are all leaders, who ignore or ignored the facts. Good job. Just a flu bla bla bla

us infected.PNG
 
I believe the intent was to flatten the curve and we did that and that was done because of the shutdown not because we were forced to wear a mask

Wearing the mask where there are no infections or the population is smaller is not going to make a difference in the infection rate
We don't know where that young fellow is from or where he is or where he is not wearing the mask so it's not possible to know exactly if he is doing anything wrong

It's up to each individual to know what is the circumstances of under which they live to determine if the mask is required and not be forced to wear one just because there is an infection increase in another state
 
Ignatz, thanks for chiming in with your voice. Unfortunately no valuable info can be in your post. Map you provided is well known to interested in the story. What is so scary about it? This is normal thing that human virus is spreading. Masks do not stop this. Masks can do harm people. More and more cases reported? Very well!! We should enjoy that cases are going up and mortality is going down. If you read Zerohedge, like I do, you can fall for nasty propaganda where a) you have COVID article every 15 min b) every time covid cases are mentioned you have picture of centenary or morgue or smth like that as commentaty (this is creating of cognitive bias in readers), then every case is reason to fear even more.

Map of red dots scares you, I get it. You expect me to look at those red dots and join in fear with you, I wont.
I suspect you do not feel the same fear toward flu, even if flu map looks similar or worse. The same for other human viruses.
If you think about it a little, map is absolutely normal. You can apply similar one to any spreading human virus and there are many of them out there. The same story repeats itself time after time except this time we have enormous media coverage (seemingly for no reason, no medical reason). Any mask or distancing wont stop this process. It can only prolongate it and bring more unnecessary suffering. As staus1 noted lockdowns were introduced to 'flatten the curve'. As it appears it wasn't necessary at all.

I bet you can not tell what is exactly different about COVID from other viruses. That is beside that you have seen plenty horrifying pictures on tv screen and plenty of business harmed or destroyed and human lives. U n n e c e s s a r y. Can you imagine same actions taken to fight a common cold?

You are right in saying that COVID is not a flu - it is less danger. I'm not saying it is nothing but measures taken are way over the board. At least this is what data shows us. Mortality rate is below flu (if you use some unverified data it is about the same as flu). If you have any other data (not estimations, not predictions, not tv scare mongering) to show how COVID is more dangerous than flu, please, show it. My guess your response will be that you will not talk to (...) like me (you can use more or less subtle word) and wont discuss what is obvious (to you).

But maybe this time you do the effort and say something more informative.

I ask honestly. I see scared people around me and nobody can reasonably and truthfully explain what is going on. Man up and show me (us) what you get or at least what scares you.


After 1 min search I found CDC data. As you know CDC did it's scaremongering part but have to cave in before real data.
Column 5 shows numbers based on what they see in data from their sources.

1593582074600.png
I you can find more yourself if interested - like that real number of cases is 80x bigger than official - but, again, this is reason to rejoice because this way humanity creates immunity, as it always did, and real mortality rate is even less.

What you say Ignatz :)
 
Marcas said:
map is absolutely normal
Click to expand...
really ?
in germany you have to wear a mask, even if there are nearly no infections in some areas. testing, keeping distance, wear a mask, wash your hands.
here the numbers:
US have 4 times more inhabitants than germany but a much greater territory (28 times bigger), which should result in better numbers
germany flattened the curve 8990 deaths, 195418 infections
US 127410 deaths, 2636538 infections
this is absolutely normal for you ?
you may ask Mr. Fauci
yesterday 48.000 new infections in USA, but as you said: that´s absolutely normal...... even when you hit 100.000 ?
 
Last edited:
Ignatz said:
really ?
in germany you have to wear a mask, even if there are nearly no infections in some areas. testing, keeping distance, wear a mask, wash your hands.
here the numbers:
US have 4 times more inhabitants than germany but a much greater territory (28 times bigger), which should result in better numbers
germany flattened the curve 8990 deaths, 195418 infections
US 127410 deaths, 2636538 infections
this is absolutely normal for you ?
you may ask Mr. Fauci
yesterday 48.000 new infections in USA, but as you said: that´s absolutely normal...... even when you hit 100.000 ?
Click to expand...

It's really disappointing that the wearing of masks during a pandemic is being politicized. No one's "rights" are being threatened here. Where I live, motorists must wear seatbelts. There is no outcry or debate. People seem to just understand the sensibility of the mandate.
 
Last edited:
as long as you don´t have a vaccine you should when you go shopping or in the bus, train etc.
Wait for autumn or winter, it can get ugly.
 
in Baden Wuerttemberg we had a lot of infections, coming from Austria Ischgl, party in a pub. Apres ski. If you follow the advice of professionals then it looks like this: new Infections per 100.000.
new infections per 100.000.PNG
 
Ignatz said:
"map is normal"
really ?
in germany you have to wear a mask, even if there are nearly no infections in some areas.
Click to expand...

There is no connection between map an masks.
I suppose you think this way. Infection spreads, we have to do something about this, officials know better and they order to wear masks thus masks is a good measure to take. Correct me if I'm wrong.
If your thinking is in this line then ask what masks suppose to do? Do masks suppose to stop spread of infection? Slow down? Accomplish something else?

I challenge any answer you provide. Wearing masks on national scale do nothing substantial and is more harmful than beneficial. That is on public health level of thinking.

Ignatz said:
testing, keeping distance, wear a mask, wash your hands.
Click to expand...

testing? this is absolutely irrelevant. serves only statistics. tests in use are often falsely positive and falsely negative. testing talk is mostly distraction.
keeping distance? it may help, especially if you are in risk group but imposing it and forcing on all society is ridiculous. Would you ban whole country transportation because some people can get hurt in traffic accidents?
masks? no practical effect, harmful,
washing hands? you should do it as a habit.

Now, the numbers you provided are not much out of ordinary. Sure, sad numbers but this is what you expect when population is hit by new virus. There is no herd immunity developed yet.
I do not fully trust numbers of 'COVID deaths'. There are reasons for my doubts. There are many reports from various sources indicating that those numers are not real. Great example of this is Italy. When real data were revealed it appeared Italy's 'COVID deaths' were overstated by... 98%! I don't have links but you can look it up - it was big issue in their parliament. Anyway, take a look at total deaths in US :

1593623077100.png

And another one, official CDC (that I consider overstated due to bad reporting procedures).

1593624002000.png

As for dr Fauci... read for yourself. His actions were contested by many specialists over the world. His predictions were _completely_ wrong. There is conflict of interest involved. If you want use any of his words, please, quote what you are referring to.

Vaccines are separate subject well worth investigating but I don't want us go this way here.

Status1 correctly, imo, noticed that COVID is a political issue. Big way. But I don't want to go this way neither. I only ask for medical reasons of all restrictions that are forced on us -- so far I see none, and this seems to be confirmed by new data flowing in. As I mentioned, I don't follow it closely anymore so I could miss smth important.
 
just go your way, we will go our way. We will see, which way will be the better one.
By now it does look good for you ? You flatten the curve ?
 
Non respirator masks do not protect you; they protect others FROM you. Unfortunately people become contagious with corona virus BEFORE symptoms develop and research suggests they are the most contagious then. The purpose of wearing masks is to prevent, as much as possible, spread of the virus by those people who don't yet know they have it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Contact Us