No SPX index fee

I did some testing of Tradier. I am on the Pro trial plan (10$/month after trial), which gives "0 commissions of options trading".
Two disclaimers: 0 commissions is not applied to index options (SPX, VIX, XSP, NDX, etc)
and there is still "transactional fees and additional fees" for each trade.

As SPY options are covered by 0 commissions I decided to test if this is makes sense to trade 10 SPY options vs 1 SPX option.

So here is final calculations:
to open and to close 10 SPY options I paid $1.55 in transactional fees and additional fees
to open and to close 1 SPX option I paid $1.75 in commissions + transactional fees and additional fees

so while there is a little benefit of trading SPY options, I am not sure dealing in 10x size
and favorable tax treatment for SPX worth the hassle to trade in SPY.
 
Thanks, @SergB! That's very helpful information. Given the various fees for SPX (SPXW slightly lower), it looks like their commission is around $0.40 per side. The Pro Plan gives full API access, meaning that you can run ONE as well as anything custom if you are doing that sort of thing. I know of a few traders in large size who get a bit better than that commission from their brokerage, but not many at all.

All in all, it's good to know and keep in mind. Thanks for the info!
 
I was wondering if you would know what is the minimum account size required to trade calendars and diagonals ?
A couple of years ago when I tried Tradier out they said I need a minimum of 100k account size to trade those strategies
I was just wondering if anything has changed
 
I found the list for the index fees for Tradier
Single Listed Index Option Fee per contract:
DJX 0.18
NDX 0.14
OEX 0.40
RUT 0.18
SPX 0.45
VIX 0.40
XEO 0.40
XSP 0.04
 
status1 said:
I was wondering if you would know what is the minimum account size required to trade calendars and diagonals ?
A couple of years ago when I tried Tradier out they said I need a minimum of 100k account size to trade those strategies
I was just wondering if anything has changed
Click to expand...
I was told to trade calendars now you just need to get Level 3 approval and no minimal account size.

Minimal account size comes when you want to sell naked calls. I was not able to place naked call, I called them and I was told
that I need minimal $50k account to be able to trade naked calls.
 
SergB said:
I was told to trade calendars now you just need to get Level 3 approval and no minimal account size.

Minimal account size comes when you want to sell naked calls. I was not able to place naked call, I called them and I was told
that I need minimal $50k account to be able to trade naked calls.
Click to expand...
That is an interesting change, I used to have a Tradier account, just too try it out and link it to a few other services etc. since they seem to be the broker that links up with many other tools. But any time spread was a no go, and required something north of $250K to trade and that was for each contract. They tried to tell me that was a common practice in the industry.

I still do most of my trading through Fidelity, which has a 4 cent fee of some type on top of the 65 cent commission. Their platform is ok once you get used to it, and now that Tom clued me in on using TOS to do my analysis and position tracking, I just do that. TOS has its appeal though, as it integrates seamlessly and automatically withTradesViz, which I have started using to track my trading performance. I have to manually export and import my Fidelity trades into TradesViz.
 
SergB said:
I was told to trade calendars now you just need to get Level 3 approval and no minimal account size
Click to expand...
I am not so sure about that
I think that is their initial standard answer and don't even pay attention to the question being asked or maybe that is the answer for equities not indexes

I asked that question fairly recently in Oct of last year
I asked them what is the minimum account size to trade calendar and diagonal on indexes (RUT, SPX)
This is the answer that I got
"You would need a margin account and approved for level 3 options. We use standard regt margin."
There is no mention of account size giving the impression by omission that there is no minimum account size required

But when I pressed them a little more about the account size I got this answer
"To trade naked index options, you would need level 6 options and a minimum of $100,000 in total equity at the time of the trade."

I did not ask anything about naked options Are diagonals and calendars considered naked options ? Who knows

I guess you will find out when you actually place the trade because I can't seem to get a straight answer out of them
I wasn't going to open a 50 to 100k account just to place 1-2 lot diagonal or calendar and for 1 lot the commission difference is not that much so I closed that account The main reason I wanted to try them out was to use the TradeHawk platform not for the commission but if I can't trade diagonals and calendars it's not worth it for me
 
status1 said:
I am not so sure about that
I think that is their initial standard answer and don't even pay attention to the question being asked or maybe that is the answer for equities not indexes

I asked that question fairly recently in Oct of last year
I asked them what is the minimum account size to trade calendar and diagonal on indexes (RUT, SPX)
This is the answer that I got
"You would need a margin account and approved for level 3 options. We use standard regt margin."
There is no mention of account size giving the impression by omission that there is no minimum account size required

But when I pressed them a little more about the account size I got this answer
"To trade naked index options, you would need level 6 options and a minimum of $100,000 in total equity at the time of the trade."

I did not ask anything about naked options Are diagonals and calendars considered naked options ? Who knows

I guess you will find out when you actually place the trade because I can't seem to get a straight answer out of them
I wasn't going to open a 50 to 100k account just to place 1-2 lot diagonal or calendar and for 1 lot the commission difference is not that much so I closed that account The main reason I wanted to try them out was to use the TradeHawk platform not for the commission but if I can't trade diagonals and calendars it's not worth it for me
Click to expand...
My $250K plus per contract response did relate to an IRA account. Which they indicated their was their understanding of common industry practice.
 
JerseyJIm said:
My $250K plus per contract response did relate to an IRA account.
Click to expand...
They should have these rules posted somewhere so you don't get different answers depending on who is answering the question

The first time I asked the question a couple of years ago (2020) I was told I need 300k than later after some follow up questions someone else answered with 100k so as far as I know that is the latest minimum unless there was a recent change since Oct last year or they are answering the question not related to indexes because it makes a difference to them the type of expiration (American or European) so if you don't specify indexes they are assuming stocks in which case you may not need 100k account
 
I traded 5 SPX calendars in Tradier having only $30k account size last week.
I tried to trade naked calls on stocks and I was not able to, I was told I need to increase size to $50k. After that I am able to place naked calls on stocks.
 
I guess cheap brokers come with their limitations.
Just today Tradier announced they will do system update DURING trading hours. As of this moment I can't access my positions, make trades or adjustments.
 
That's awful! I imagine it's to apply a fix that must be critical. Even so, ouch! I think there are still some fairly large desks that work with Tradier as this is a client type that they cater to. They must be getting a lot of blowback.

Hopefully, the system is back up before the Close so that you and others can tidy up or adjust going into the weekend.
 
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