SteadyOptions Performance Question
- Thread starter tom
- Start date
I have been a Steady Options subscriber for the past 4 months. I am asleep most of the time the market is open, only waking up when alerts come through. So I miss some trades. I have been achieving their reported return, maybe even doing a little better due to some late entries, exits and mistakes. One of their mentors is extremely patient in responding to all the questions he receives. It is a supportive community. There is a lot of good information contained within the bevy of topics that are posted but they are not structured learning so they can take some wading through. It is a good service with real trades that is high on integrity. Please don’t use these comments anywhere as a reference. They are not intended for such purpose.
@tom I think you are not alone with you experience
steadyoptions.com
Not making money yet
I wanted to start this thread to discuss what and if I am doing something wrong and maybe even suggest some positive improvements that can be made. I will first start this with declaring I am not making any money using Steady Options so far. As a matter of face I am down around 10-15% of my funds...
steadyoptions.com
K
KimK
Guest
Hello Tom,
This is Kim, the owner of SteadyOptions.
I believe I provided an answer to your question in my first reply on the topic:
I believe that looking at SO subscription cost (or the cost of any tool or course) as percentage of your account is a mistake. You invest in your trading education. You invest in your future. You expect that what you learn will help you to improve your trading and your profitability going forward. In the same way as people who pay $5-10k for educational course don't expect an immediate return on their investment. Nobody finds it frustrating spending tens of thousands of dollars in university tuition fees, and nobody expects to get back their investment in engineering or medicine degree in 4 months.
I encourage everyone to read the whole topic, not just the first post. You can find some feedback from our veteran members who were with our service for more than just few months.
We recommend starting with paper trading and then start small and increase the allocation gradually till members feel comfortable with the strategies. Trying to get back the subscription fee as quickly as possible is similar to trying to get back to even after a losing streak. I understand that making money is the ultimate goal, but the path to that goal is through learning and education. There are no shortcuts.
To answer your first question Tom - yes, it is not easy. We never said it is. We believe in work and long term commitment, not in "get rich fast" schemes. Like any professional education program, our programs require work and discipline. We are only interested in serious traders dedicated to their professional development.
I believe it all comes to expectations. Nobody expects to become proficient in any area in life in 4 months (engineering takes 4 years to study, medicine 7 years etc.) but people expect to become proficient in trading in 4 months. It's a process that takes years not months.
I hope this answers the questions.
This is Kim, the owner of SteadyOptions.
I believe I provided an answer to your question in my first reply on the topic:
I believe that looking at SO subscription cost (or the cost of any tool or course) as percentage of your account is a mistake. You invest in your trading education. You invest in your future. You expect that what you learn will help you to improve your trading and your profitability going forward. In the same way as people who pay $5-10k for educational course don't expect an immediate return on their investment. Nobody finds it frustrating spending tens of thousands of dollars in university tuition fees, and nobody expects to get back their investment in engineering or medicine degree in 4 months.
I encourage everyone to read the whole topic, not just the first post. You can find some feedback from our veteran members who were with our service for more than just few months.
We recommend starting with paper trading and then start small and increase the allocation gradually till members feel comfortable with the strategies. Trying to get back the subscription fee as quickly as possible is similar to trying to get back to even after a losing streak. I understand that making money is the ultimate goal, but the path to that goal is through learning and education. There are no shortcuts.
To answer your first question Tom - yes, it is not easy. We never said it is. We believe in work and long term commitment, not in "get rich fast" schemes. Like any professional education program, our programs require work and discipline. We are only interested in serious traders dedicated to their professional development.
I believe it all comes to expectations. Nobody expects to become proficient in any area in life in 4 months (engineering takes 4 years to study, medicine 7 years etc.) but people expect to become proficient in trading in 4 months. It's a process that takes years not months.
I hope this answers the questions.
K
KimK
Guest
P.S. This is taken from your own Mentoring program page:
Plan on at least six to twelve months of paper trading and live trading to get to break even. Once you are not losing money, you can slowly start scaling your trading size up.
Your doctor, attorney or pilot all started by hitting the books and then getting instruction from a current and qualified professional to teach them their trade. It is no different with option trading. It's a complicated skill set that needs a good amount of understanding before you start trading live.
Your philosophy of "learn first, trade later" is actually very similar to ours, so I'm surprised that you even asking this question. And the price of your mentoring program is worth 4 years of our SteadyOptions subscription fee, but nobody should expect to get it back in just few months.
Plan on at least six to twelve months of paper trading and live trading to get to break even. Once you are not losing money, you can slowly start scaling your trading size up.
Your doctor, attorney or pilot all started by hitting the books and then getting instruction from a current and qualified professional to teach them their trade. It is no different with option trading. It's a complicated skill set that needs a good amount of understanding before you start trading live.
Your philosophy of "learn first, trade later" is actually very similar to ours, so I'm surprised that you even asking this question. And the price of your mentoring program is worth 4 years of our SteadyOptions subscription fee, but nobody should expect to get it back in just few months.
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Just out of curiosity Is there any learning provided at SteadyOptions ?
What I mean is, is it like a mentorship where you show why a particular stock was selected and what time frame and what option strategy to use on it or it's more like an alert service where you just give out a basic guideline and than provide an alert for a certain stock to place on an option strategy ?
For a straddle that I see you use a lot it's very time sensitive so if you just provide an alert service by the time the alert reaches the trader and they have time to act on it, any profits that could be had can quickly evaporate and since you only make about $100 per trade when closed there is not much room for error so I can see why a lot of traders may not make any money
A straddle is difficult enough to be traded sucessfully If it takes 6 months to a year just to learn to break even and than you scale up just enough to make $100 per trade I can see why a lot of traders are not profitable Basically you are just waiting for a big swing in the underlying otherwise you are loosing money every day due to Theta so most of the time you break even or get out with a small loss and once in a while you have a big gain which may or may not be enough to offset all the other small losses
I think if you eliminate the stradle and strangle strategies the traders at SteadyOptions would have more sucessful trades that's just my opinion
What I mean is, is it like a mentorship where you show why a particular stock was selected and what time frame and what option strategy to use on it or it's more like an alert service where you just give out a basic guideline and than provide an alert for a certain stock to place on an option strategy ?
For a straddle that I see you use a lot it's very time sensitive so if you just provide an alert service by the time the alert reaches the trader and they have time to act on it, any profits that could be had can quickly evaporate and since you only make about $100 per trade when closed there is not much room for error so I can see why a lot of traders may not make any money
A straddle is difficult enough to be traded sucessfully If it takes 6 months to a year just to learn to break even and than you scale up just enough to make $100 per trade I can see why a lot of traders are not profitable Basically you are just waiting for a big swing in the underlying otherwise you are loosing money every day due to Theta so most of the time you break even or get out with a small loss and once in a while you have a big gain which may or may not be enough to offset all the other small losses
I think if you eliminate the stradle and strangle strategies the traders at SteadyOptions would have more sucessful trades that's just my opinion
K
KimK
Guest
@status1 SteadyOptions is much more than an alert service. We provide full overview of all our strategies and every trade has a separate discussion topic where we explain the trade rationale and members can discuss and ask questions. Each one of our discussion topics has on average about 50-100 posts.
Regarding straddles - most of them are earnings straddles, where the price is supported by the upcoming earnings, so the effect of negative theta is significantly reduced. Those trades can make money from the stock movement or IV increase or both. Here is a good introduction:
steadyoptions.com
Straddles are among our most consistent and profitable money makers, with average return of 5-6%. Some people might not consider it a good return, but with short holding period, when you repeat it many times, it accumulates to very consistent and steady account growth. Read more:
steadyoptions.com
Contrary to your conclusion, most of our members make very good returns (otherwise they probably wouldn't stay).
Thank you for the opportunity to explain.
Regarding straddles - most of them are earnings straddles, where the price is supported by the upcoming earnings, so the effect of negative theta is significantly reduced. Those trades can make money from the stock movement or IV increase or both. Here is a good introduction:
Long Straddle Options Strategy | Maximize Profits with Big Moves
Learn how the long straddle options strategy works to profit from major market swings. Discover risks, rewards, and tips to trade straddle options effectively.
steadyoptions.com
Straddles are among our most consistent and profitable money makers, with average return of 5-6%. Some people might not consider it a good return, but with short holding period, when you repeat it many times, it accumulates to very consistent and steady account growth. Read more:
Is 5% a Good Return For Options Trades?
I'm often asked if 5% is a good return for an options trade. The answer is: it depends. Learn more from SteadyOptions.
steadyoptions.com
Contrary to your conclusion, most of our members make very good returns (otherwise they probably wouldn't stay).
Thank you for the opportunity to explain.
K
KimK
Guest
Not easy at all. Options trading is very difficult, and anyone who says otherwise is misleading you.
Regarding straddles - yes, it's very important to select the right stocks at the right prices and the right time. Recent volatility doesn't make it easy since many straddles are very expensive compared to previous cycles and overall decrease in market IV hurts those trades. But we are trying to adapt to ever changing market conditions. It's never easy.
On the website I saw this statement
" The focus of the forum is on non-directional strategies like earnings plays, Straddles, Iron Condors, Calendar Spreads, Butterflies, etc. "
I was wondering if the straddles should be in that group since you want the underlying to move in any direction so while you don't care in what direction you do want it to move unlike the other strategies where you don't want it to move
Given all the difficulties mentioned for trading straddles I was wondering if maybe that should be eliminated or reduced to a limited use for when a big move is expected and not just use it in any earnings anouncement assuming that it will move a lot
Compared to the other strategies I would say the other strategies while not easy they have a better chance of working out than the straddle
It just seems to me that trading straddles is like trying to go up on a down elevator with everything going against you and the only chance you have is to run fast
" The focus of the forum is on non-directional strategies like earnings plays, Straddles, Iron Condors, Calendar Spreads, Butterflies, etc. "
I was wondering if the straddles should be in that group since you want the underlying to move in any direction so while you don't care in what direction you do want it to move unlike the other strategies where you don't want it to move
Given all the difficulties mentioned for trading straddles I was wondering if maybe that should be eliminated or reduced to a limited use for when a big move is expected and not just use it in any earnings anouncement assuming that it will move a lot
Compared to the other strategies I would say the other strategies while not easy they have a better chance of working out than the straddle
It just seems to me that trading straddles is like trying to go up on a down elevator with everything going against you and the only chance you have is to run fast
K
KimK
Guest
Well, that's your opinion. Our straddles performance tells a different story. 9 years of proven live track record where straddles are significant percentage of all trades. And yes, this is still a non directional strategy.
I know I am a new member here so little credit should be given to my post but I have been a member of Steady Options on and off for about 2 years now.
Although their performance/track record is verifiable (they post screen shots of order entries and closings), I don't think you can replicate it. I suspect about 25-30% of the profits come from the fact that they can enter a long straddle or calendar in a stock with not much volume, send out an alert, and then when 70-100 members all try to enter the same trade it automatically gets a 10-20% pnl boost. To be clear, this is not intentional on their part and I don't think they are trying to mislead anyone, it is just part of the nature of running an alert service using options on some stocks with limited volume.
What I do think is worth it is the education you get there. They (along with the members) have shared some pretty successful earnings strategy ideas. My earnings account was up 32% in 2020 and that was only trading 2.5 of the 4 earnings cycles. So if you are the type of person who likes to learn about new trading ideas (long vega) and how/why they work I would recommend joining for a month or two purely for the education. If you happen to grab a few successful alerts then that would just be icing on the cake and likely cover the cost of the membership but I would not let the alerts be your focus or you will be disappointed.
There are a lot of crummy option alert services out there, Steady Options is not one of them.
Although their performance/track record is verifiable (they post screen shots of order entries and closings), I don't think you can replicate it. I suspect about 25-30% of the profits come from the fact that they can enter a long straddle or calendar in a stock with not much volume, send out an alert, and then when 70-100 members all try to enter the same trade it automatically gets a 10-20% pnl boost. To be clear, this is not intentional on their part and I don't think they are trying to mislead anyone, it is just part of the nature of running an alert service using options on some stocks with limited volume.
What I do think is worth it is the education you get there. They (along with the members) have shared some pretty successful earnings strategy ideas. My earnings account was up 32% in 2020 and that was only trading 2.5 of the 4 earnings cycles. So if you are the type of person who likes to learn about new trading ideas (long vega) and how/why they work I would recommend joining for a month or two purely for the education. If you happen to grab a few successful alerts then that would just be icing on the cake and likely cover the cost of the membership but I would not let the alerts be your focus or you will be disappointed.
There are a lot of crummy option alert services out there, Steady Options is not one of them.
Hi Brad. Welcome!
One thing is always stress to Aeromir experts is not to front run like that. You can get in trouble with regulatory bodies doing that. When i send out a trade alert, I never send an order to my broker until AFTER I send the trade alert to the subscribers. I compete for fills the same as my subscribers.
i tried SO a while ago and also found it difficult to follow.
One thing is always stress to Aeromir experts is not to front run like that. You can get in trouble with regulatory bodies doing that. When i send out a trade alert, I never send an order to my broker until AFTER I send the trade alert to the subscribers. I compete for fills the same as my subscribers.
i tried SO a while ago and also found it difficult to follow.
K
KimK
Guest
@BradF ,
Thank you very much for sharing your feedback!
Yes, our main goal is to provide education to our members and share trading ideas and different strategies. I'm not sure when you have seen a 10-20% pnl boost - in most cases there might be a temporary boost of 1-2% and after a while the prices come back. For more liquid stocks the effect is negligible, and if you look at our performance page, most of our stocks are very liquid, like AMZN, AAPL, NFLX, IBM, DIS, ORCL, NVDA etc. Most of the time our members can achieve very similar prices, and in fact I know many members who beat our official performance.
Considering the fact that in 2020 you missed two of our most profitable months (January and February), your performance is actually pretty close to our official performance. And I know that many members, including yourself, learn the strategies and become much more independent over time.
@tom
The definition of front running is:
"Front running is the illegal practice of purchasing a security based on advance non-public information regarding an expected large transaction that will affect the price of a security."
In our case we always open a discussion topic before the trade is placed, where we share all the information about the upcoming trade, including the trade setup, rationale behind the trade, suggested prices etc. You can see an example of the discussion topic here. This is the main difference between SO and most other services.
Front running is illegal, and I would be very careful accusing someone of doing it without having all the facts.
Thank you very much for sharing your feedback!
Yes, our main goal is to provide education to our members and share trading ideas and different strategies. I'm not sure when you have seen a 10-20% pnl boost - in most cases there might be a temporary boost of 1-2% and after a while the prices come back. For more liquid stocks the effect is negligible, and if you look at our performance page, most of our stocks are very liquid, like AMZN, AAPL, NFLX, IBM, DIS, ORCL, NVDA etc. Most of the time our members can achieve very similar prices, and in fact I know many members who beat our official performance.
Considering the fact that in 2020 you missed two of our most profitable months (January and February), your performance is actually pretty close to our official performance. And I know that many members, including yourself, learn the strategies and become much more independent over time.
@tom
The definition of front running is:
"Front running is the illegal practice of purchasing a security based on advance non-public information regarding an expected large transaction that will affect the price of a security."
In our case we always open a discussion topic before the trade is placed, where we share all the information about the upcoming trade, including the trade setup, rationale behind the trade, suggested prices etc. You can see an example of the discussion topic here. This is the main difference between SO and most other services.
Front running is illegal, and I would be very careful accusing someone of doing it without having all the facts.
Hi Kim,
that may be the book definition but I would not want to have to explain putting a trade on before telling a subscriber base about it to a regulator. Perhaps that is called something else. Jim Riggio called that front running so perhaps Jim was mistaken on the term.
K
KimK
Guest
Tom,
This is the part you probably missed:
"we always open a discussion topic before the trade is placed."
So actually we DO tell subscribers about the trades before they are executed.
As you probably know, one of our business partners is an attorney and an IRA. I can assure you he would not risk his licenses and allow something that is even remotely "not kosher", not to mention illegal.
btw, Jim Riggio knew perfectly well how we operate - and yet at some point he wanted to partner with us.
As a side note, I'm not sure why you felt the need to open this discussion 2+ years after being SO member for few short months. We all have options in life. You don't like something or not find it suitable for you - just cancel and move on. There are hundreds of members making excellent returns with SO (they wouldn't stay otherwise), but obviously the service is not for everyone.
Sorry, but it's time for me to move on, so I'll leave it at that. Good luck to everyone.
This is the part you probably missed:
"we always open a discussion topic before the trade is placed."
So actually we DO tell subscribers about the trades before they are executed.
As you probably know, one of our business partners is an attorney and an IRA. I can assure you he would not risk his licenses and allow something that is even remotely "not kosher", not to mention illegal.
btw, Jim Riggio knew perfectly well how we operate - and yet at some point he wanted to partner with us.
As a side note, I'm not sure why you felt the need to open this discussion 2+ years after being SO member for few short months. We all have options in life. You don't like something or not find it suitable for you - just cancel and move on. There are hundreds of members making excellent returns with SO (they wouldn't stay otherwise), but obviously the service is not for everyone.
Sorry, but it's time for me to move on, so I'll leave it at that. Good luck to everyone.