Masks

[Marcas]

Ignatz, I do not joy with the deaths. If you think you can stop the deaths you do not know much (although intentions are good). If you think that esotheric possibility of lowering death number or spreading deaths over longer period is worth destroying a country you are mad-man.

" The enemy's weapon is water balloons."
i think you have this opinion exclusively

I just use CDC number: death rate = 0.004

 

[JoeA]

JoeA, Please, be more clear. My point is that number of cases are going up and number of deaths - down. There is no need to ''flatten the curve' anymore.

No need to 'flatten the curve'? For one, deaths are proportional to infections. The divergence is likely explained by better testing, which might well support a lower mortality rate than originally thought; however, we ought to take great care not to be so cavalier with the lives of our fellow citizens who are vulnerable. No one is calling for economic shutdown. We are simply discussing the asymmetric payoff of wearing masks when social distancing isn't possible (grocery stores, city sidewalks, etc.). Globally, there is no controversy as to the efficacy of masks in helping to prevent the spread of all disease. If we can't do even that much for our neighbors, the US is in far worse shape as a nation than I thought - and I've been short the US since 2016.

 

[Marcas]

I propose to leave graph interpretation for now because we are back to my oryginal question about masks.

Show me anything that support thesis that wearing masks by whole population is beneficial to society. I know there is consensus about that between discussants here. Is there anything more substantial than that? You can use common deduction, that is fine. Let's see where it lead us. Please, share you reasoning behind statement that masks are effective, so we can look at it closer. If you intend to write something like "this is obvious to everyboy", please, save the effort ( but realize what your believes are based on ).

 

[JoeA]

Snow me anything that support thesis that wearing masks...is beneficial to society.

Your combativeness is exhausting. I feel like I'm debating a trump supporter who refuses to accept some self-evident bit of common sense such as routinely brushing your teeth before bed.

Start here:

COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE

This historical page is not up to date. Find the latest on COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Ignatz]

Japan and other asian states often uses masks as they have experience in using it because of hongkong flu and other. So you better ask them. Europe is new in using masks.

 

[status1]

I believe Japanese people were wearing the mask way before the virus and for many other reasons that you can read here

Why do Japanese people wear masks? A look behind a cultural quirk

Wearing a surgical mask in Japan is common. Why, though, do the Japanese wear masks? Find out all the reasons why Japanese people wear masks.

gogonihon.com

So that is not a good argument to wear the mask just to follow other culture

Besides I don't think many people are using them correctly
Form what I have seen with people keep touching it and adjusting it and some people just hang them on their ear or wear it as a chin strap or just cover the mouth leving the nose open or even taking them off and puting it on later
Some people just wear a bandana or some cloth just to cover their face to make it appear they they comply with the mandate
but if those people were in a virus infection zone or they were carrying the virus I doubt any of those action would prevent the transmission of the virus

Social distancing is possible in most grocery stores and sidewalks unless your are in a protest crowd which could be more dangerous than the virus if you get shot or hit in the head by a brick

 

[JoeA]

Social distancing is possible in most grocery stores and sidewalks unless your are in a protest crowd which could be more dangerous than the virus if you get shot or hit in the head by a brick

You're tilting your political hand - protests have nothing to do with this debate. More to the point, everything else you wrote above this quote is your opinion of the overall issue as you prefer to see it.

 

[Marcas]

Your combativeness is exhausting.

You may have this impression. What I was hoping for is good discussion. I see I wont have that. Let it be.

I looked at link you provided. Of course I wont discuss with web page. I noticed language they are using:

"Cloth face coverings may help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others."

Which is exact equivalent of sayint they may not prevent spreading at all. I noticed before that CDC guidance of COVID reporting is such that numbers of deaths are overestimated. Of course language was vauge enough. Interestingly, when I was looking what is going on I spoted that CD is sued for providing false death numbers as high as 15xgreater. Somebody must have been not cautious enough with written words

I looked through references. Plenty material not related, some on the subject but non conclusive. As said I wont exchange arguments with web page.

Interestingly today in my materials I found this. Read it for your own benefits. Some parts are small surprise to me even if I'm aware about most of what they are writing. I wont comment.

The Science is Conclusive: Masks and Respirators do NOT Prevent Transmission of Viruses -- Sott.net

Comment: The following review of the scientific literature on wearing surgical and other facemasks as a means of preventing the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and thus preventing contraction of 'Covid-19' was published a month ago. And absent some...

www.sott.net

Because we wont have discussion I just want to add one info of practical use for you and all readers. No on CDC pages though. Do whatever you want with it. Remember that unjust orders are not to be followed.
Wearing mask for prolongated period of time is harmful. There are many downsides (like sneezing through nose and taking in through mouth... yummy ) but one of most important issues is constant oxygen deprivation created by mask. Now, there are many long and short term consequences of that - look up for yourself if interested, or ask Dan. One of them is weakening of immune system. Wearing mask causes that you contract COVID (and any other disease out there) easier and symptoms are more severe. Be aware of that fact for goodness of yourself and your friends who are forced to wear one mask all day long.

Here is short video about that. Test is done by some man who knows what he is doing. Let me explain a bit as he is moving fast. He uses device for constant monitoring air quality in confined spaces when people are in. If alarm goes off all are evacuated at once as air quality is dangerous. Also note that he is not wearing fitted mask, he has facial hair allowing air travel to be less restricted.

So, don't use harsh words for young man who avoid mask, he may be up to something.

Thanks everybody for chiming in.

 

[Tb2018]

Odd Crew – We All Die

Life is like a riddle / Of that we all don’t know the end / One day you smile, next you don’t / Trying to guess the answer? / We all die! [x2] / I try to reach you my friend / It’s

genius.com

cheers !

 

[Tb2018]

 

[Tb2018]

 

[Tb2018]

 

[Ignatz]

503 new infections in germany and most of them wear masks
52,898 new infections in USA and most of them doesn´t wear masks ?
mask or not, let´s face the facts. And take some action
economic needs a healthy population.
Does that look healthy ?
Texas, South Carolina, Florida, Arizona closes bars, beach, cinemas etc.


dont discuss about mask, discuss about results

 

[status1]

223 new cases in Japan where everyone is wearing a mask the biggest spike since May
How is that possible if the mask is supposed to be so effective ?

How do we know it's not just another wave passing through and has nothing to do with wearing a mask

 

[Ignatz]

503 in germany, 223 in Japan........ 52,898 in USA. What do you talk about ?
sorry, but that´s ridiculous.
it only takes a few superspreader to get this low numbers. For example some idiots in a bar in germany. Idiots are everywhere.
But it´s still UNDER CONTROL ! you can manage to get the contacts they had.
BUT YOU CAN´T DO THAT WITH 52,898 NEW INFECTED PERSONS ! AVERAGE OF 41,000 NEW INFECTIONS PER DAY ! That´s the point. How do you think to manage this numbers to stop the infection ?

 

[Ignatz]

Just an example for a superspreader:
a guy married in India, about 300 persons. The guy got infected and died 2 days later. On the funeral there were 200 people.
Result: 111 infections.

 

[Ignatz]

How is that possible if the mask is supposed to be so effective ?

You imply it happened because of not using a mask ? Is there any confirmation for that ? Or just guessing ? Or was it by shaking hands ? Or using a paper towel of another person ? Or getting infected by the eyes ? Or eating something infected?
There are a lot of possibilities to get infected but you simply reduced it to the use of mask ????
And does anybody said a mask gives a 100 % protection ?
It´s all about the combination of different government action to get the numbers low.
But some guys prefer to talk nonsense or obvious lies, play golf and look TV instead of doing their job ??

 

[status1]

I only mentioned Japan because you earlier implied that Japanese people were wearing the mask to stop the virus which according to that article it is not true because they were wearing it before the virus
What I was trying to imply is that wearing the mask is not a protecting you from giving or receiving the virus otherwise the infection would be a lot lower and not increasing

I have not reduced it to the mask I was just trying to correct an impression that you left by saying to look the Japanese because they are wearing the mask as an example so if we follow them than we would also have just as low numbers
which does not proove the effectiveness of the mask which is what we are talking about since we do not want to expand talking about other reasons

 

[Ignatz]

you can continue your discussion here:

Face Masks Against COVID-19: An Evidence Review

The science around the use of masks by the general public to impede COVID-19 transmission is advancing rapidly. Policymakers need guidance on how masks should be used by the general population to combat the COVID-19 pandemic. Here, we synthesize the relevant literature to inform multiple areas...

www.preprints.org

The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces the transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected droplets in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at stopping spread of the virus when compliance is high.

"...wearing the mask is not a protecting you from giving or receiving the virus otherwise the infection would be a lot lower and not increasing"
professionals disagree completely.
And one more question: is the infection in germany and Japan a lot lower than in USA ?
Do you ignore the numbers ?

 

[Ignatz]

.. is not true because they were wearing it before the virus

of course because there are different sorts of corona virus (about 6 ?) . and always will be, they will not vanish, and may be Covid also stays forever...